LPI-DE stops working
p.heinlein at jpberlin.de
Mon Jul 29 05:00:00 EDT 2002
julie at lpi.org (Julie Thornton) hat mir am 28.07.02
eine Mail zu "Re: LPI-DE stops working" gesendet...
Hier ist meine Antwort!
> The rest of the message had information that was vague and left me
> with more questions than answers. I was unable to learn from this
Yes, maybe. On the other hand it`s very much stuff to explain after four
month of work. On the other hand`s it`s a question of staying fair and
general to say what have been the reasons without opening a war about
> original message what the areas of disagreement were and therefore
> felt that the message was of a nature to criticize LPI-INC for their
> behaviour without giving clear evidence of what that behaviour was.
To explain it in another way: Sure we had problems with some points LPI-
INC asked for (revenues etc.), but we could have handled these points.
Most of them have been cleard during the last few weeks. Chuck posted the
last proposal from LPI-INC to this list and said, that this is what the
problem is about. But that`s not right.
Our problem is the way LPI-INC treated LPI-DE. We have had NOT the feeling
to be a partner of LPI-INC. We have not the feeling to be a welcomed
partner who gots support from LPI-INC. We realized, that we have had to
fight for some points that are really important for us.
And, that`s the most important point, we have had to realize, that LPI-INC
tries to use his power and force to "make facts". There have been points
in the discussion, where LPI-INC made decissions and where was no chance
to discuss it for us to reach a level that both sides can accept. This not
a kind of "warm" negotiations between partners, this is a kind of
negotiations between business competitors.
LPI-INC hasn`t been interested how *our* interests are in this matter.
Maybe they thought "Hey, they`ll accept it if they don`t have another
chance!". But we haven`t. :-/ LPI-INC is doing what LPI-INC wants to do,
the rest of the world can and have to accept this.
In German we call this behavior "eat or dy!".
The kind of talking to us has been very rough and determinated. It wasn`t
a discussion between to collegues. We got the feeling, that LPI-INC treats
us like as *we* want something from LPI-INC and LPI-INC has the
possibility to show some generosity to make a contract with us. But that
doesn`t work. Many times people in my group have been very demotivated
after reading answers from LPI-INC. Some of them talked to lay down the
work for LPI-DE in June and we had to remotivate them.
On the one hand LPI told us to do whatever we wanted and how we believe
that`s right, on the other hand they dictated us how to work, they stopped
negotiations with my group in a way we couldn`t accept because they
believed [...!] that something of our internal organization is not like
It was a view to the future that made us clear, that we have to stop LPI-
DE. Sure, most of the actual problems could have been solved, most of the
problems HAVE been solved. But the way everything worked was so bad, that
we don`t believe that we would have better negotiations with LPI-INC in
the future. -But this had to be necessary if LPI-DE and LPI-INC have
*real* problems or a discussion about some deeper points. There have been
so many points with bad tastes in it, that we had to stop this. Every
single point would have been no problem. Everything together are so many
bad things we can`t handle.
I want to repeat me to make it clear: We haven`t stopped LPI-DE not only
because of some differences during the last negotiations. Sure, we had
because of that (because it wasn`t acceptable), but that`s not the only
reason. The most important reason for us have been the way LPI-INC talks
to us und handles the negotiations. My group don`t have to make a deal
with a company that doesn`t like and respect us and that doesn`t treat us
as a partner.
What happend now is an example par excellance: Why has LPI-INC deleted the
lpi-euwg-list? Why? Nobody can tell me that this happend because of a
"reorganisation" of the list! Nobody! On the one hand that could have been
done without deleting it! Does they have set up another one? Under the
same Name? Under a different name? *NO!*. On the other hand that could
have been done after we sent our last statement to this list and this list
is not of interest for us any more.
Our last statement was for lpi-euwg, I wrote that Chuck and that`s written
in the text. We have been fair, we have sent the statement to Chuck first.
He wasn`t fair, he used his advantage (and our STUPID fairnis!) to delete
the list to block our statement to the rest of the group. In this kind of
behavior you can EXACTLY see what our problems with LPI-INC have been.
That`s not a way to react between normal collegues, people and partners.
We DON`T want to work with people like this!
> It was interesting to see that there was specific information
> contained in Chucks message that will affect affiliate organizations
> worldwide which I had not seen and which clarified the position
> LPI-INC has regarding affiliate organizations.
We had the impression, that these points of this paper aren't made public
to others and that these points are not in the interest of some
(potential) affiliates and people working for LPI, the community. That`s
why we tried to discuss these points some times during the last few weeks.
But LPI-INC doesn't want to discuss it, they just said "no further
discussions, accept!". -Well, we haven`t.
During our meeting on linuxday my group made a clear decission, that we
really should pay attention to setup a LPI in Germany, that is orientated
on quality, never, *NEVER* on quantity. This decission has been made long
time before LPI-INC made this proposal. On the one hand we could
absolutely NOT accept this proposal, on the other hand LPI-INC made clear,
that they won`t discuss it any more.
> I am confused, as some comments made to me surrounding the formation
> of LPI-US said that LPI-INC specifically did NOT want all revenue
> generating activities to be focused on the revenue sharing that comes
Our financial plan was build on a sponsorship model were the revenue is
just a small part. But LPI-DE should work in a kind of manner, that brings
effort to the companies which support and sponsor us. That`s not possible,
if LPI-DE is just a marketing machine, if it`s just franchising like
> from LPI-INC. The sponsorship model used in LPI-Japan is frequently
> referenced by LPI-INC as a model for success. Therefore your
As far as we know the model of Japan is absolutely not compareable to us,
because AFAIK some/most of the LPI-JP people are working for large
trainings companies, so everything is mixed up. And: LPI in Japan has a
single position without alternatives. This is absolutely not the same as
in Germany, were some Linux exams have been set up this summer, where the
companies haven`t much money and where they want to see more than just the
existance of LPI-DE.
> comments Martin are not consistent with my own experiences. For
> LPI-US, we've planned to form a not-for-profit organization with
> alternate revenue streams which are dependent upon LPI-INC for all
> revenue and which are dependent upon sponsors, so I'm intensely
We did the same.
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