[lpi-discuss]LPI 101 (with RPM | DPKG)

ross brunson ross at brunson.org
Mon Jun 21 23:05:11 EDT 2004

On Mon, 2004-06-21 at 10:51, enigma at riddlefixer.com wrote:
> Hello,
> I have to say that I strongly support vendor neutral efforts.  LPI does
> not step over the line here with regard to RPM and DPKG.
> Furthermore, although it is true that LPI cooperates with trainers and
> content developers in an effort to make training around LPI objectives
> flow easier, LPI is a community driven effort and does not and should 
> not forego valid LPIC objectives because they are difficult to teach.

Right on, nicely said.  I would only add that LPI very much needs to
keep working with trainers and educators to make sure that something
like Revision 1 of Level 1 (with install on exam 2, among other
anomalies) doesn't happen again.  Revision 2 was vastly easier to teach,
and follows a nice flow of topics from the beginning of 101 to the end
of 102.

Let the whiners complain that something is hard to teach, I love really
digging into a topic and figuring out how to distill it for my clients. 
Thats what true training is all about, making a complex topic
understandable, mostly by knowing it fully yourself.

> I think the way LPI objectives have evolved makes things a bit unclear
> with regard to DPKG and RPM.  It is important to understand that neither
> DPKG nor RPM are Linux distributions so the requirement to know them
> does not violate vendor neutrality.
> Initially, DPGK and RPM were part of a Package Management
> requirement/objecitve.  Think of it this way: what is package management 
> and do you know how to use it?  With the goal to meet the vendor neutral 
> requirement, which package management systems should be tested?
> My personal opinion is that source packages and knowledge of them and
> how to use/install/manage them at some level should be a requirement of
> LPIC1.  It certainly seems unecessary to some, but as a one-year veteran
> system administrator, how many times did you need to know something
> about source packages?  If not LPIC1, definately LPIC2 should cover this
> subject.  Topic 105: Kernel objectives in Exam 102 kind of meet my needs 
> with regard to this ;)
> So, IMHO, it is not about market share or what distro to use in your
> training courses.  Instead, it is about Linux.  It is up to the trainers
> and courseware developers to decide how best to meet the objectives for
> LPIC, but if LPI starts to create objectives just to make the lives of
> trainers easier, then LPI will have lost its vision.

Again I agree, but LPI would short-sighted (and they're not now!) if
theey didn't count trainers as one of their greatest advocates and
assets, and so avoid making life harder for them unnecessarily .

> With regard to what distribution you should use to teach Linux, I
> suggest a Debian Unstable build environment in place, then teach Linux
> >From Scratch (http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/)  ;-)  Okay, maybe you
> don't have time for that, but wouldn't they get a good look at vendor
> neutral Linux that way?

Woof, you had me with you up until the whole Debian unstable thing.  I
want to teach them Linux, not ruin them completely <grin>.  I've had
great results using a mix of Knoppix, Red Hat and SuSE, plus they get a
whole load of ISO's for the different distros to try out in their spare

I force them to stay text-mode for the first half of class, then let
them go GUI after X, that way they get a LOT of text mode, not just
shiny KDE/GNOME applets and themes.


P.S.  Nice contribution to the discussion!

> Cheers!
> On Tue, Jun 01, 2004 at 05:41:28PM -0700, ross brunson wrote:
> > On Tue, 2004-06-01 at 14:37, Christopher Sawtell wrote:
> > > On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 23:32, Marcin Mazurek wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I've received some info form my testing center about LPI 101 and 102
> > > > exams wich says there are two different kinds of 101 exam:
> > > > - 117101 LPI Level 1 Exam 101 (with RPM)
> > > > - 117151 LPI Level 1 Exam 101 (with DPKG)
> > >  
> > > You state in your FAQ list at http://www.lpi.org/en/faq1.html#1.9 that
> > > "LPI is completely vendor independent and distribution neutral".
> > 
> > I understand very well why LPI did what they did, try giving a class on
> > vendor neutral Linux, and what distro do you install???   You have to
> > install SOMETHING to learn on and work with, and until lately Debian and
> > Red Hat were the two leaders in the market, not just monetarily, but in
> > market share.  I think that using SuSE will work and am incorporating
> > it, but SuSE does some things differently.
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Ross Brunson
Ross at Brunson.org
Mobile: 208-691-9234 

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